Being a Leading Learner and an Educator – Life in the Petri Dish of AI

[00:00:00] Brian AI: Are you not sure how to feel about the way AI is suddenly everywhere? AI for Helpers and Changemakers is a show for people who want to do good work and help other people. Whether you’re already using AI tools and loving it, or you are pretty sure that ChatGPT is the first sign of our downfall, we want you to listen in and learn with us.

[00:00:26] Your host on this journey is Sharon Tewksbury Bloom. For 20 years, she’s worked with helpers and changemakers. She believes that we’re about to see the biggest changes in our work lives since the Internet went mainstream. We’re in this together. Join us as Sharon interviews people in different helping professions.

[00:00:44] Navigate what these new technologies are doing to and for their work.

[00:00:47] Sharon: Excellent. And you and I met through the AI Tinkerer’s Club. How did you find out about the AI Tinkerer’s Club and how long have you been part of that? 

[00:00:57] Angela: I found out through the, Meeting Innovation Community, Elise Keith’s group, and it was about, again, it could have been last week.

[00:01:08] Sharon, it could have been like, five years ago. I don’t know anymore. but Alex from the Tinkerers Club was doing an experiment, and I don’t know how I found out about it, but the experiment was storms. 

[00:01:24] His online, collaboration, facilitation, a mural kind of thing. I didn’t really realize what experiment I was in.

[00:01:34] when I heard it was happening again, I signed up because they were doing it for other parts of the world. there I was at two in the morning. the experiment was storms Alex was saying, let’s brainstorm on this board, the question was, what are we going to do with our lives when we.

[00:01:52] Are only working three or four days a week what happens to loneliness for seniors? what kind of epidemics are recreating when we’re working with three and four days a week. So Alex first took us through kind of the, let’s use our own brains to brainstorm and we had the little sticky notes and we’re adding our ideas.

[00:02:12] And now he’s showing us how to move things around. and so again, I’m thinking the experience. I’m not realizing that technology is the experiment. And so then he started using the, showing us the AI function in the tool and how in the software and how you can marry the human with the technology.

[00:02:36] And that’s where I got really excited It is a way to complement what I’m doing, not to replace what I’m doing. So, like I said, it was so exciting for me using Storms, and I’m very hands on, which is why I love the Tinkerers group, that’s why I went to the next.

[00:02:54] the next experiment with Alex I wanted to use the tool about a week later it was really funny ’cause I was learning all these little tools and like this AI stuff is really cool. So for my business one day I thought, I love show and tell. So I’m going to do a show and share on the AI tools that I have learned about in the last two weeks and went on LinkedIn and said.

[00:03:20] Anyone interested and I had about 10 people on there. Well, I had learned it like 2 weeks before and was feeling like quite a superstar with the, the different didn’t have to even look up what AI meant and teaching people when I was planning that session, that little show and share.

[00:03:40] I was trying to figure out how to set up storms because there’s like all these steps that you can do from, you know, diverging to converging and Alex. I was writing and saying, what do I do about this? And he said, do you want to hop on the line with me? So in half an hour, he set up a Storms session for me, which I did a half hour later.

[00:04:05] And that’s what I, it’s making me look smarter, and I’m actually feeling smarter because it is, it is really expanding. it’s something I’ve really glommed onto and I’m excited about. 

[00:04:20] Sharon: I have multiple threads I want to pull on there. Before I forget I want to go back and start with an introduction.

[00:04:28] you’re a businesswoman. in Canada. working in supporting employment services for someone listening who has no idea what kind of field do you work in?

[00:04:39] And what kind of things you help people with? 

[00:04:43] Angela: Okay, so the field I work in is community employment services, workforce development, career development, and I work with organizations that support job seekers who are distant from the labor market and who are at risk of Long term unemployment or never employment and so the organizations are set up to ensure that the people that want to work and we’re talking about people with disabilities and newcomers to the country and people have criminal histories or their own social assistance, you know, these people that are kind of We call marginalized or barriered or equity seeking deserving groups that there are people that want to work and aren’t working and I work with organizations on how to.

[00:05:41] bridge the gap from job seeker to the employer, not by using resumes and interviews and job boards by, but by using, by relationship selling by engaging employers to look at talent pools they’ve never considered before. And there’s a lot of perceptions around those groups of people that employers, maybe you’re uncomfortable with hiring.

[00:06:08] But there’s also perceptions that employers have about the services and and is this a government program that’s going to waste my time and I’ve had bad experiences with. So my work with organizations is how do you set up the, the model to ensure that the people that need the most support get it? because that’s an issue where sometimes the people that need the least support get all the support, whether it’s subsidies or staff support or.

[00:06:37] how do we make sure the people that can’t find a job on their own are supported. I work with leaders, teams, do training, consulting, coaching. 

[00:06:49] Sharon: One of the thoughts that inspired me to start this series was the idea that we’re running out of time to know what it means to be human.

[00:07:00] As we use artificial intelligence and technology more it helps us get clear about the uniquely human experiences or ways to bring more humanity into our work.

[00:07:14] so I hear you saying in your work, you build relationships with employers help people recognize and overcome barriers, biases, past prejudices, hear people’s stories see, different perspectives. do you agree with that? And are there other things that come to mind in terms of what’s uniquely human in the work you do 

[00:07:36] Angela: My work is with service providers job seekers and employers. And the solution, that I see from a policy perspective and where government is spending money, I cannot tell you how many job boards are funded in this province, in Canada. and I see it all over, all over the place, all over the world.

[00:08:03] It’s this, like, we just need a better, better tool for employers to find people. You know, everyone’s going to upload their resume and then by magic, you know, employers are going to see these and they’re not going to. do what they do on Tinder and swipe whatever left or right you go, they’re going to actually want to talk to these people.

[00:08:25] But, that is not how people get jobs. People get jobs through relationships. sometimes you don’t have relationships. 

[00:08:36] Sharon: Okay. 

[00:08:36] Angela: You know, you’re, you don’t, and, or, sometimes you have people in your life that no one’s working.

[00:08:43] So how am I supposed to tap into my network where nobody I know is working? Maybe people don’t want me working. Maybe I’m new to this community or whatever. And I think this is where in my work. It is about bringing that human part in there, that if we have credibility as humans, if we are connectors, if I have relationships with employers.

[00:09:11] if they see me as credible, and I believe it, then they’re going to see the people I’m recommending as credible. And that doesn’t mean I’m overselling people. It’s like, you know what? You say you need this, this person has these strengths, do you want to give them a whirl? I don’t see AI or technology is going to support me.

[00:09:33] Technology can support and, you know, understanding what is our labor market, you know, where, where are the jobs potentially, but I’m into local labor market just in time labor market that is not publicized. I’m in the hidden unpublished market. So, AI can help 

[00:09:54] Okay, I’m going to see an employer what might I expect about objections they might have about my organization and how can I deal with that? And I can use that to inform and get information to prepare myself for my role if I’m a practitioner. but I actually have to pick up the phone and talk to somebody.

[00:10:14] I actually have to go in. and technology can help me maybe be more confident in those interactions and I’m talking about this from a practitioner, you know, a job developer talking to an employer, I also find it with my work as a consultant coach and trainer 

[00:10:33] I’ve been a consultant for 25 years and it gets pretty lonely in my office thinking about ideas and why don’t I try this and why don’t I try that. And hiring other people to give me their perspective over those 25 years it’s like, what am I looking for?

[00:10:48] I’m looking for confidence in what I’m recommending chat is, Going to be nice to me and tell me how great I am, but I can, I can ask, like, what would my worst critic say about what I’m proposing right now? And it really helps me think things through in a private way, but now I’m here public on that podcast, but in a private way that I can be a safe learner with AI.

[00:11:20] Sharon: I think That is a great, lesson for those who are just dipping their toe into the world of AI. I think a lot of people that I’ve talked to who are new to the tools, think of them as the sources of answers, you know, I will go to this tool to ask for an answer to a question or do some research for me or summarize some information for me.

[00:11:46] but really. Those of us who have gotten to tinker and play more with these tools are finding that being able to use it as a conversational thought partner, you know, sort of treat it as though you’ve hired this A. I. assistant to, do things that, will help you to manage your time better or to help you build your career.

[00:12:11] Preparation and confidence for the work that you’re doing, can really be quite a different way of approaching how we leverage the technology and help to keep us in the driver’s seat as we, you know, start to use these tools more. I know we talked before about how one of the things you do is you have written on a sticky note to remind yourself of how can chat GBT help me with this.

[00:12:40] I totally relate to that. I’m sticking notes all over and I could see myself doing the same thing. what are, you know, 2 or 3 ways recently, examples of case studies or what you’ve used, ChatGPT for lately?

[00:12:54] Angela: recently I had a client or a potential client call me and say, You know, we work with newcomers to the country that are professionals in this area, and they’re coming into Canada and, you know, they’re going through the testing to, you know, their medical professional and they’re going through the testing, to see if they can be certified in Canada.

[00:13:24] And some of them, you know, you write the test. With the regulatory body and you failed it, you’re going to have to do it again and that’s not till next year, or maybe you can’t get a seat to do the test for three years. And so this organization does a program for a medical profession for internationally trained professionals.

[00:13:51] so what do we do with them? I don’t know. they’re wanting to work in their profession and they can’t someone may say, okay, I will be a junior level, not the professional. But be maybe something that is a ladder to be the professional and employers, you know, they’re saying, well, you know what, we don’t want to hire you because 1 day, you’re going to be this medical professional that, you know, so we’re not going to hire you now.

[00:14:17] there were 2 things in that that I went to chat. On well, 1 of them, I already knew, and that is employer perceptions I don’t want to hire you because you’re going to leave me like, that’s just come on. That’s just an objection that is, you can go to chat there and say, okay, how do I handle this objection?

[00:14:39] The person was talking to me and saying to me, can you help me kind of design a program on, you know, what do we do with these people? And, you know, I know enough in this industry to think about, you know, have you thought about, alternative career pathways? Have you thought about Other organizations that are already doing bridging programs.

[00:15:00] Well, this was new to this person. There was a value add I add in the human. But as I was talking to this person, I was like, on chat saying what are the bridging programs in Canada? Are there any, for this profession? What are the alternatives you could, go into 

[00:15:21] Because we, we do know that if you come into Canada as an internationally trained professional and don’t work in your field with your first job, the odds of you getting into your or even industry again, or next to nil. You’re going to be washing dishes and driving cabs and everything else. So as I was talking to this client, I’m going into ChatGPT, finding out information, getting the list of all of the programs, and And even with, with, the, the profession that she was talking to me about, it’s like, and there you go, right?

[00:16:00] And sending it by email. there was a time I would put that together and charge for that, where now there is, for me, there is kind of this motivation to help others do what I’m learning to make their life. easier, from a business perspective, it means that I’m also having to rethink what changes for me as a business person when content is so easily accessible 

[00:16:33] Sharon: I’ve, Run into similar things. I work as a trainer and a facilitator. training people on information, how easy is it to access this information? Are there just a few people who have access to it? Or is it easily accessible? the role of.

[00:16:50] The knowledge expert, or the trainer, depending on, you know, how you define your role and what you focus on has changed as that barrier to information barrier to expertise has lowered and lowered and lowered. there’s still an interesting conversation about our. Unique human value 

[00:17:10] So is it less getting people access to the information like you said you can be on the call with them and be pulling up the information with the help of AI really fast. So just getting that information isn’t the value add that you have. And part of it is probably your experience with knowing how to evaluate those options or to help them approach 1 of those programs, given their life experience or what barriers they might be running into.

[00:17:41] So, it is really interesting. Think about, how, yeah, how our roles change. What, what becomes valuable? What versus what is less valuable? in education as well, and I think You know, they have to think a lot about the kind of assignments they give to students because, you know, a lot of it was like, finding information and regurgitating it back.

[00:18:05] On a test or paper, who started this war and what were the 3 causes of it? that’s pretty easy to get an answer to now. So, then that becomes like, well, what’s the more, you know, why were we asking that in the 1st place? What were we hoping that they would gain from it? And what’s a different way of getting to that?

[00:18:27] how do we bring value to that conversation? this week I was helping a group of university staff to figure out how they could use AI in their work. And quite a few of them wanted it to help them with strategic planning, with developing action plans, with. Writing standard operating procedures, things like that.

[00:18:52] it’s very good at creating an answer to those types of prompts. It can write a strategic plan in minutes, but then it, brings the question of, what were you hoping to get out of creating a strategic plan? Was it to have a 25 page document that says what you’re doing? Yes. Yes. Or was it to wrestle with the questions of what deserves the most attention and resources and, you know, to really make meaning out of where have we gotten to in the last couple of years?

[00:19:29] Where do we want to see ourselves next? I’m curious about how we as trainers and facilitators, rather than try to say, you know, oh, AI really doesn’t do a good job of that. Like, don’t use it for that. I’d rather say, yeah, AI can do a very quick, efficient job of that. And here’s how we can then support that in making it actually meaningful and valuable, rather than just having checked a box and say, yep, we did the road, a plan, or we, you know, said how we’re going to connect these job seekers to opportunities.

[00:20:05] Angela: I feel like I’m in an AI Petri dish right now,in that Petri dish, when I look at AI Tinkers group, it is that tinkering, it is that applied learning that is so powerful for me as a learner. in this Petri dish, I’m, realizing the importance of discipline, the importance of good enough, move on.

[00:20:30] The importance of, if you have 10 hours to do this, it’s going to take 10 hours. But if you have 15 minutes, it’s going to take 15 minutes. So I’m going down all these roads right now of I’ll ask chat a question and I like their answer, but it’s like, let’s keep going. 

[00:20:49] Let’s keep going. then it’s like an hour has gone by. yesterday I had done that for hours on a project. I felt like I had converged. my husband came in and I said, I just want to toss some ideas at you. I’m wondering about this word and that word.

[00:21:05] So it was like, how about this or that? And we’re having this conversation for about a half an hour. And he’s like, yeah, I think you should land on that one. I’m like, okay, I’ll land on that one. then he said, what are you doing right now? I said, I just put our ideas in chat to see what he thought about it.

[00:21:23] And he’s like, you were finished that stage. That, that was, The diverging. you weren’t brainstorming anymore. You were coming to a decision. realizing my experience. and all of the ways that can go wrong or be a time waster and I can get in the wormhole are lessons that I can be sharing with my clients.

[00:21:46] Sharon: Yeah. 

[00:21:46] Angela: and then for me, as a trainer of content. there was a time maybe about two weeks ago where I was thinking my job is just to give content. 

[00:21:58] Sharon: Right. 

[00:21:59] Angela: And actually, it was probably a year ago where I had that, my I’m just giving content and I went to art school.

[00:22:05] sat in rooms for three hours, we were talking about like, and this is how you do something. And I was feeling that itchiness of like, are we, and at one point I said, are we going to do anything? Like, we’re actually going to get our hands on anything. It’s like, oh yeah, we’ll get there tomorrow.

[00:22:22] And it was a real eye opener for me as a trainer of, you know what? People don’t want to be looking at a head anymore at the front of a room. They don’t want to be watching a PowerPoint presentation. They want to be learning it. It’s about application for them. It’s not about the cookies. It’s not about that.

[00:22:42] They liked me as a trainer or that the room was hot and the chairs were uncomfortable. that’s not what I want them to remember. I want them to know that something has changed for them, It’s a tall order and puts a lot of pressure on me, because I really want that for them.

[00:23:02] they have agency too. I mean, I, it’s just, I just want to go here, let me do it for you. But that engaging them and let people be there in their own Petri dish is, What I can support them to do right now. will I make money at it? That’ll be a problem. 

[00:23:20] Sharon: Yeah, I think that if, if they apply what they’re learning and see the value that’s where the value comes through as a business.

[00:23:32] Well, you know, I think that. I noticed that so this, this gig that I just facilitated last week, it was a group that I had already worked with the year before. the first year I did traditional team development style, facilitation. They had some new key players on their team. They wanted to rethink.

[00:23:57] We get to know each other talk about their strategic priorities, the uncertain future coming out of the pandemic, things like that.that we had all these high level conversations and we facilitate a lot of team development, but there was, a certain contingent in the room was like.

[00:24:12] When are we going to actually do something? when are we going to stop talking about it? when am I going to see the relevance to my everyday job? And there are other people who really appreciate and feel value in the human connection and big picture thinking but it didn’t leave everyone feeling they had immediate value.

[00:24:33] this time. It was very much skewed in the other direction where I was teaching them about. Artificial intelligence and what were commercially available tools that were available to them and then very quickly into the process. We actually took the high level ideas. They had talked about a year ago and I had them sort them by which ones were still relevant a year later and then pull the ones that were still relevant, but that hadn’t been started yet.

[00:25:04] And have them go through an exercise to see how could I help us get started on this or get it done faster it was something they still thought was important, but they didn’t have the resources to address them like, does this change anything now that you have access to AI. and many of them did feel like it changed something and did feel like, oh, that thing that never felt like we could get to we could get to now because it’s faster and so much easier.

[00:25:31] yeah, I think I left thinking, wow, because the workshop was designed to have them apply what they were learning immediately. many of them even started. Doing what they wanted to do in their own laptops with chat you T or with another tool, you know, they left that room having already completed projects that have been on the back burner for.

[00:25:54] Yeah. Yeah, so I wonder about the speed of these tools. usually we’d do a training then they’d go back to their offices. Think about how to apply what they learned, then get distracted by some other emergency.

[00:26:09] And they’re never going to actually do it because of the speed of the tools, would we be able to get them further faster in the training experience. 

[00:26:19] Angela: Yeah. 

[00:26:22] Sharon: And what does that change, with the expectation of what you do in training, What is something where you would usually leave off and hand it over to them to do on their own, 

[00:26:32] Angela: you know?

[00:26:33] Yeah, leaving it off, I think, One of the the important pieces in facilitation is commitment at the end. Yeah. And are you leaving with an action plan with a concrete action a name and a date? if the first three things on that action plan would have been, we have to write a policy or whatever, it’s like, let’s get that out.

[00:26:59] Let’s do it now. now let’s talk about the theory of change around it, it’s not just about the policy, it’s the application, it’s the compliance. With the policy and it’s thinking about, I mean, even, even taking that, you think about, okay, so we’ve just developed our AI policy in this group 

[00:27:21] let’s think of all the, things that can go wrong. It’s like, what are you going to anticipate? how are we going to plan for it now? That’s the acceleration EAI can do in a workshop.

[00:27:34] I love that follow up. I go back a year later. Some of those things may have been done the night before because they know Sharon’s showing up, right? but it is, moving. I love that follow up. Remember we talked about this six months ago?

[00:27:49] Oh yeah, they’re still on the list. I love that application you’re talking about. it’s still important because sometimes it’s just getting started getting that flywheel going. the opportunity, for us as facilitators and consultants is helping with that behavior change.

[00:28:08] Sharon: Yeah, I think There’s the help. Well, multiple pieces. there’s helping with behavior change because we know that’s often difficult Even if we agree what needs to change, we have a better understanding of it actually making those changes, especially if it involves us having to change our own behavior.

[00:28:25] Can be very difficult I often try to build empathy in my workshops for each other around how difficult it is. sometimes I do that simple exercise where you put your hands together and see, like, did I put my right thumb over my left? Or my left thumb over my right?

[00:28:41] switch the way their hands are clasped. So they have the other thumb on top and they go, how does that feel? does that feel any different? And everyone’s like, Oh my gosh, that feels so weird. That feels uncomfortable. Right. Even something as simple as how you class for your hands.

[00:28:56] If you’ve always done it one way, You’re suddenly doing it a different way. It’ll feel awkward and uncomfortable. It feels wrong at first, you know, use that as like a metaphor to say, okay, if we’re going to do things differently, it might have that period of time where it feels uncomfortable or it takes, you know, more effort because it’s not the way we’ve done it before.

[00:29:17] helping them learn not just the content, but how to manage their own beliefs attitudes and behavior to apply what they’re learning. And then the other two things that came up for me, one was helping people question their own thinking. I think that’s a huge value that we bring as outside consultants or as facilitators because oftentimes they they’re sort of at, this is our problem, help us solve it.

[00:29:48] if we suddenly use the power of AI to get to the stated answer faster, like you said, you need a five year plan, here’s your plan, then oftentimes we can get to the underlying deeper work, helping them question and align with their values or with.

[00:30:10] The current resources they have, are there hard choices they haven’t made? the 1st would be attitudes, behavior change. The 2nd would be helping people question their thinking. And the 3rd, helping people build institutional knowledge.

[00:30:24] That’s just a general maintenance practice many nations lack is clear documentation of. why did we get together? What data was generated Why did we have the outputs we had And what is the follow up we said we would do, when I came to this client and put up on the wall, all the ideas that you talked about last year, none of them had captured those ideas.

[00:30:53] No, 1 had references exactly what to see them again. Oh, yeah. Those were ideas from a year ago. Yeah. Help them have that institutional memory of, wow, that’s where we were a year ago. interesting to see where we are now. being the outsider, you can do that in a different way too, that people can internally.

[00:31:14] Angela: Yeah. for me being a business owner, for 35 years and a consultant for 25 years. I have organizations I’ve worked with that long I have a system I learned in 2005 that changed my life, getting things done by David Allen.

[00:31:35] Right. I organized my files what I love about David Allen. is His model is for unorganized people. The people that like to underline things and, you know, everything put together. That’s not who his model is for. with clients now, I can say, You know, I want to work with you around this, I can go back and say, okay, when we worked on this 15 years ago, and I can actually pull out the information and say, and then when we worked eight years ago on that project.

[00:32:04] Right. that’s a great party game too. Because it’s like, we talked about that in 2000 You’re still saying that’s priority what comes up for me just in the things that that you just talked about Sharon was I’m this whole design thinking this whole iterating thing because I grew up in a time where it’s like there’s one answer.

[00:32:28] we had a scarcity of information. I had the book of knowledge. That’s all that existed, the at home encyclopedia or the book at the library. So now it’s like completely different where we’ve got this glut of information and there’s not just one answer.

[00:32:46] There could be a million answers. 

[00:32:48] Yeah, it’s helping me realize one way we can provide value as we tinker and learn is, what are the skills. Of the AI age, you know, as you said, left of information. So being able to create content and share information, it’s not that it doesn’t have any value, but there may be now increased value in curating existing information and evaluating sources and being able to discern like what is valuable and why.

[00:33:25] Sharon: In a history undergraduate degree. And so just knowing the basics of like primary sources versus secondary sources and being able to explain why this source of information might be better than others. You know, one of the concerns with AI itself is that it’s often using math, using statistics to generate answers or content from, you know, data that’s already in it.

[00:33:55] Databanks. So it’s not necessarily going out and looking for what are the most reputable sources a great librarian or newsletter editor does. That’s not what your AI tool is doing. So, so then that brings in. Okay, so if we can understand.

[00:34:13] Where the tool works enough to understand its strengths and limitations how do we figure out where The skills for leaders in this age need to be in terms of filling those gaps 

[00:34:28] Angela: the first thing in my petri dish in learning myself and helping others is how.

[00:34:40] We all go back to being five years old when we learn something new. when I went to art school last year, I felt like I was in grade seven that kind of, why do we have to do that? I see that anxiety of learning that everybody else knows that I don’t know how to get a QR code.

[00:35:01] Right. I don’t know what a QR code is for. And I don’t know what I do with it. Right. That the, with new technology, new concepts, I think we’re all thrown back to when we were introduced to a new concept at some point where we were afraid we’d fail.

[00:35:20] And where you’re talking about the crossing your hands, I’ve been doing something similar with pickles, do you know pickles? It’s like a whiteboard you can draw with your finger. Yeah. So I’d start a workshop and it’s like, okay, we’re going to draw a picture.

[00:35:37] with your non dominant hand you can’t take your finger off the screen and you’re going to do this. to get to that point, people had to be able to access, do a QR code, access Pickles, learn it. And I’m like, help your neighbor, help your neighbor. by the end of the second day, I say, okay, so what we’re going to do is we’re going to draw your face.

[00:36:01] The first day, it’s like, I want you to draw your face with a non dominant hand. Well, the next day it’s like. Draw your face with a non dominant hand using pickles. Everybody knows how to get on. They, now they’re using colors. getting fancy with it. now I can talk about learning concepts.

[00:36:23] They had the experience of not knowing and knowing how to use technology in a short period how does that translate with concepts like talking to an employer and asking them great questions? You’re going to go through that same fear you had in, in learning pickles. That took five minutes, right?

[00:36:44] Then you’re going to have in sitting with an employer. So being able to not, you know, in a responsible and safe way, take them through learning and role plays are about that too. But take them through that learning. So they’re more confident when they’re out in the world. 

[00:37:01] Sharon: And I think that’s why people who have this experience and knowledge around.

[00:37:05] Training facilitation will be very helpful as we have many people learning new things at once. we’re trying to teach people within our own sectors, but I think there’s also that broader skill set that we bring of what is it. That helps people as who are adults in their work. 

[00:37:27] learn something that they may be intimidated to learn. Yeah. That may be an uncomfortable situation, but that they, you know, find themselves suddenly needing to learn whether they want to or not. 

[00:37:37] Both: Mm-Hmm. . 

[00:37:39] Sharon: Yeah. when we designed this workshop last week, one thing that came up was it was a department in which you had.

[00:37:47] The top leadership, and then you had sort of the middle management. the top leadership, typically they are people who are older because they’ve got more experience. So they’ve been promoted to those roles. and so it wasn’t true across the board, but many of them feel like they have had to learn so many different technologies.

[00:38:08] They don’t know. Is it really worth learning yet? Another technology? we had 1 person recently been having issues with their eyesight. they’re trying to navigate. Not just the tech, but a limitation with eyesight. So, different barriers. it ended up being helpful to have top leadership go through the exercises first and get out concerns or anxieties with their peer group.

[00:38:32] Before the next layer of leadership, not because we were trying to be exclusive or anything, but it’s just sort of recognize, like, desire to not be embarrassed in front of people you supervise, you know, you’re supposed to be the leader guiding them and feel out of your element.

[00:38:47] that can be intimidating. 

[00:38:49] Angela: when you asked about the human part, where’s the human part, and you use the word empathy, that is something as facilitators and trainers that we bring as humans creating safe learning spaces where people can learn, like you said, is it time to bring in the team, or is it time for you to go through your own, As a leader, your own stages change here, before you bring other people in and AI is not going to be able to do that.

[00:39:23] Sharon: You know, 

[00:39:23] Angela: that human connection will still be necessary. we’re reading the room, meeting people where they’re at. trying to figure out what’s really going on. with this goal of, Making it better, not worse. 

[00:39:38] Sharon: these have been great insights.

[00:39:39] Angela: I appreciate you chatting with me Is there anything I didn’t ask you or we didn’t talk about that you wanted to include I think going back to the Book of Knowledge when we look at our workforce now, and young people, I look at my, my children, my daughters who are 30 and 27 that say, you know, Mom, we’re old now compared to these young people.

[00:40:02] They didn’t have, you know, Facebook till they were in high school. They didn’t have. a smartphone until they, were in grade 12, maybe, Where for me, I started out using a manual typewriter. and I’ve had to, yeah, like cry me a river. I had to learn a new tool. I had to I graduated to electric, right?

[00:40:22] our workforce now is made up of so many different generations that have had different experiences and introductions. And you asked me, you know, when was I introduced to AI? It’s like, when was I introduced to a computer? You know, where, where children now are born and it’s like, I got one when I got a smartphone when I’m eight months old, right?

[00:40:47] Where I didn’t get mine till I was. 45. And with all of these different generations, you know, I remember hearing that for people with disabilities, that technology was going to be the great equalizer for people with disabilities. And I see that, that, that technology is too, especially for these, if you, if you’re willing to learn, it doesn’t matter how old you are.

[00:41:13] you’re willing to say, okay, I don’t know the answer and I’m, there’s new tools out there and I’m, I’m going to learn them, but I’m also going to keep my emotional intelligence keep reflecting on myself supporting others and figuring out how humans, we work together, but how can technology help us work better together?

[00:41:35] Sharon: yeah, I love that. it reminds me that also people have different, because of how they’ve been exposed to technology at different times in their life or their career, they have different expectations for what learning a new technology looks like. Yes, this group that I was in, one of the older members who’s very eager to use the tools.

[00:41:56] She said, where’s the course that I can take in this, where’s the manual, you know, like, yeah. Okay. Someone says we’re going to roll out this new technology, attend the courses. Here’s the manual. Here’s the screenshots that show you what to click when, you know, and she’s, that’s how she’s learned 

[00:42:16] Many years new technology and stayed abreast of what’s going on. now she’s being asked to just play with it. She’s like, yeah, about that. I don’t know if I just want to play with it. I would much rather someone walk me through it. So I can build my confidence with it. 

[00:42:32] Angela: Mm hmm. Yeah, yeah, And this is why groups like the AI tinkerers group are important to be with other facilitators, consultants, coaches, that are also learning, 

[00:42:47] I feel like I’m part of a community, even though I only see people on Zoom, the safety of knowing here we are, we’re all in this Petri dish, we’re all giving it a whirl, and that’s the only way. Things are moving so fast that the course will be irrelevant by next week.

[00:43:09] Right, and that is something for those of us, me, who’s an applied learner, this is like, woohoo, you know, this is how I’ve always learned things, because those other methods don’t work for me. 

[00:43:23] Sharon: I was lucky enough to be a part of a group similar to this. an ad hoc learning development professionals group Started during the pandemic for facilitators and trainers, they were having to rapidly learn all the features on zoom and all the features on any other digital facilitation tools. And so we would get together and someone would demo practice something together and do it in a safe environment before we.

[00:43:50] Did it in front of our clients. So 

[00:43:53] Angela: is it still going? 

[00:43:54] it was. a group that formed when people had a lot of time because all their things had been postponed or canceled and all supported each other and then once we all got busy again with work and had felt more comfortable The thing you just use the word time and that is the the thing with technology and and and learning all this AI stuff is the importance of discipline I’m finding with myself it’s like I, I, I don’t need to be on the tinkerers group or learning all of this stuff all the time. Right. I need to say I’m giving myself a half hour a day to see what’s out there and really stick to that because we have to put brackets around these things or, how do we get anything else done?

[00:44:44] I find Sharon with chat. I need to know, three answers is enough. I could be doing this for two hours, but half an hour is enough talk about emotional intelligence with teams and how do you work most productively together.

[00:45:03] But it’s what I learned from David Allen and getting things done is discipline. We hate it and we need it and we’re certainly going to need it as things change and move forward with AI and everything else 

[00:45:16] Sharon: one of the things I’ve gotten the most positive feedback on from clients lately is teaching them about boundary setting.

[00:45:24] Yeah, I really do feel like we’re in an era of boundaries being a high priority for professional success and understanding how to set them and enforce them, or, Yeah. It’s no fun, 

[00:45:41] Angela: Sharon. 

[00:45:41] Sharon: It’s not fun. It’s fun when you have the time. I know it’s important, 

[00:45:46] Angela: what do you mean you’re going to clip my wings?

[00:45:48] What the heck? 

[00:45:51] Sharon: Yeah, because they are 

[00:45:52] Angela: important. Boundaries are important. Definitely. 

[00:45:55] Sharon: Yeah, there’s a great resource. I’ll put it on the podcast show notes, it’s called the set boundaries deck, a card deck around boundary basics and situations you need to set your boundaries with.

[00:46:09] Angela: I will look for that in the show notes for sure. 

[00:46:13] Sharon: And how can people follow you or connect with you if they want to include that in the show notes 

[00:46:18] Angela: my name is Angela Hoyt. My company is Evolution Group Inc. and you can find me on LinkedIn under Angela Hoyt.

[00:46:26] don’t do Facebook or Twitter anymore. LinkedIn is a great place to get me. 

[00:46:32] Sharon: do you only work with people in Canada or across the border as well? 

[00:46:38] Angela: I work remotely. in person in Canada, remotely everywhere else. Thanks. Excellent.

[00:46:46] Sharon: thank you for being willing to hop in with me. And I enjoy also being a colleague in the Tinkerer’s Club and, the discoveries we’re making week after week. So I look forward to staying in touch. 

[00:46:57] Angela: thank you Sharon, for this opportunity and teaching me so much, 

[00:47:01] I’m looking forward to continuing that learning journey with you.

[00:47:04] Thank you for joining us on this episode of AI for Helpers and Changemakers. For the show notes and more information about working with Sharon, visit bloomfacilitation. com. If you have a suggestion for who we should interview, email us at hello at bloomfacilitation. com. And finally, please share this episode with someone you think would find it interesting.

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